O RLY

[kingandy]

Following on from the clash of the titans in the Doctor Who finale, it seems they're planning on another battle royale next year. Footage has already surfaced...

Comments

[myki.livejournal.com]

I'm not ashamed to say that I want the Master to return really quite a lot.

[areteus.livejournal.com]

I agree. The only thing that disappointed in that last episode was the fact that neither the void ship nor the 'time lord tech' that was inside it contained a rouge time lord or two. Just more daleks...

After all, I very much doubt the Master got wiped in the Time war. He's more likely to have legged it - into the void, for example.

So, what do you reckon... Johnathon Pryce as the Master and Joanna Lumley as the Rani? With maybe Judi Dench as Councillor Flavia and Ian Richardson and Lord President Borusa? :)

Apropos of survivors

[kingandy]

One of RTD's articles in the Doctor Who Annual had a Brief History of the Time War; as well as using it to make his own New Adventure novel that much more canon (by mentioning "N-Forms"), he added a teaser onto the end. An ancient carving on a forgotten moon of a lonely god mourning the loss of his people. Scratched into the stone, "You are not alone..."

[kingandy]

q.v.

[myki.livejournal.com]

I have to admit getting rather excited when I watched the trailer for Love and Monsters - When the Doctor said "hang on a minute I know you" regarding Elton - I hoped they'd were bringing back a younger, blonder Master.

[kingandy]

Mmmmmm.

[areteus.livejournal.com]

Interesting...

Ok, anyone agree with me on this:

The Doctor did something, something big and flashy and typically Doctorish, which went horribly wrong. It ended the war but killed all the Time Lords and, supposedly, wiped out the Daleks (apart from the ones who disappeared into the void and the ones who survived with the Emperor).

At some point, I am hoping that this will be revealed...

[kingandy]

I think that's been almost explicitly said on screen. Except, from what Ecclestone said, I suspect it was not so much "horribly wrong" as it was "exactly as planned". He knew what he was doing, and he pushed the button anyway because otherwise the Daleks would have won and it would have been all his fault. It broke him, and he spent his ninth life healing, mentally.

My narrative sense suggests that it was part of a Time Lord last-ditch contingency plan, and he was merely the one to put it in motion (either due by intent or happenstance) ... I have nothing really to base that on though.

[dracven.livejournal.com]

IMHO the doctor can't be the only one left, there were too many 'rogue' time lords 'retired' on several places already. Let alone the ones like Rani, Master, Time Meddler to name but a few. If the Daleks had a void ship then I'd think the Time Lords had a similar contingency.

[kingandy]

Well, it does depend on whether the climax of the war simply exploded everybody present or removed the Time Lords from history altogether ... but the Doctor did seem pretty sure that if there were any other survivors he'd be able to sense them.

But then, he was pretty sure that travel between universes was impossible now, so he's clearly not omniscient. ;)

[dracven.livejournal.com]

Ah but we know he can't sense other Time Lords, otherwise he'd have caught on to the master a lot sooner in older episodes. It wasn't as if the masters disguises were particularly good either!

If it removed the Time Lords from History then surely he himself would've gone? Also if they'd been removed from history they couldn't have had the prison ship to trap all the Daleks in. I think removing them from history would create several paradoxes.

[kingandy]

On the first point, there may be a difference between sensing "that man over there is a Time Lord" and sensing "any Time Lords exist at all, somewhere in time and space". Though I'd note that Time Lords do often seem to recognise each other despite regenerations ... and further, possibly the Master was blocking that particular sense at the time, which may be why the relatively poor physical disguise was able to fool the Doctor so readily.

It seems relatively apparent that the weapon (or Event, or whatever) was intended to at least wipe the Daleks from history - remember, the Doctor was surprised to see a Dalek at all despite his habitual use of a time machine. And if the Daleks survived by hiding outside the universe, it stands to reason that the Genesis Ark they had in there would survive as well.

In point of fact, it's the fact of the Doctor's TARDIS that implies to me that the Time Lords have been wiped from the face of history - he's not expecting to ever run into any of his time travelling race, ever again. (Observed evidence does suggest that TARDISes have some sort of safeguard to prevent travellers from crossing timelines and meeting each other out of order, but further evidence suggests that these can be overridden, even in the case of a single traveller.)

This is, of course, all conjecture and does not address the difficulties of pulling oneself up by one's own bootstraps.

[dracven.livejournal.com]

"And if the Daleks survived by hiding outside the universe, it stands to reason that the Genesis Ark they had in there would survive as well."

Not all of them did survive that way though did they, hence the dalek army encountered at the end of Ecclestons doctor.

[kingandy]

Well the one in Dalek (The Doctor conjectures) fell through cracks in the universe, and the Emperor claims to have been hiding in "the dark spaces" ... both could effectively amount to the same thing, having isolated themselves from the timestream (and changes thereto). Or something.

[paulgregory.livejournal.com]

On a related note, how does the Doctor recognise from a grown man someone he saw briefly as a child? Is this some special ability?

[jacob-xiii.livejournal.com]

After all, I very much doubt the Master got wiped in the Time war. He's more likely to have legged it

Didn't The Master get eaten by the TARDIS during the 8th Doctor's oh-so-short stint?

[kingandy]

Well he wasn't sure. But it was probably not too long ago for him, and it's probably something to do with how Time Lords recognise each other. It's been hinted that Time Lords may have ill-defined "time-related senses" ... and the telepathy probably helps.

So, yeah ... narrative causality.

[kingandy]

He did. Sucked into the Eye of Harmony, or at least a conduit there ... or possibly the "vortex" that hides under the console in the new series (or all three). Even if he's since escaped, it's likely he wouldn't be in a Gallifreyan body any more, or could otherwise have obfuscated his presence. The Doctor's opinion on the subject in no way rules out randomly running into the Master. ;)

[jacob-xiii.livejournal.com]

Yes, I have been thinking that that could, in fact, possibly bypass the 'all the Timelords are gone' thingy for a plausible return of The Master..... and a much more plausible one than the Daleks have had in my opinion.

Hmmm....also, completely ignoring all the non-canon stuff produced, wasn't Romana left somewhere weird....like an alternate dimension or something? E-space, somewhere 'out of time'?

[kingandy]

She was. However, even though the canonicity of the Virgin novels (wherein she returns to Gallifrey and becomes President) are questionable at best, in the Annual article mentioned above RTD does make reference to "President Romana". The Annual does still enjoy an "expanded universe" level of canonicity, liable to be contradicted by the series, the fact that that article was penned by the executive producer and chief writer of the series does lend a certain amount of credence that that is at least his personal canon.

[dracven.livejournal.com]

Not to mention her own series of audio plays with her and leela doing stuff. Not that kind of stuff!!